Bill Williams sent the scan below and asked:
I have come across my patches form the 1977 national jamboree, the attached patch was traded there.. That narrows down the age. 6-1/2†tall was wondering if it is part of Ko Nosh l oni Lodge.
I responded that since Ko Nosh I Oni’s totem was the Tree of Peace, and a single tree is prominent in all of their patches which this design does not contain. It is likely a Troop patch of some sort. Don’t recall ever seeing one before.
It seems highly unlikely that it is a Ko-Nosh-I-Oni item. For years I attended a local TOR in that area (Marcy) and don’t recall seeing one in amy of the upstate traders lists over the years (Vanderbilt, Bombard or Fox collections).
Anyone else ever seen it before?
Don’t forget, Ona Yote 34 uses a white canoe (usually carried by an Indian) on its flaps.
While that lodge came along a few years later, it could still be a clue pointing you in that direction. Is it also possible that David E. misremembers when he traded for this piece? That happens all the time, especially after 20+ years have passed.
John,
You may be right, but this patch has no FDL. The final Ko Nosh I Oni flaps do, as do all of the early Ona Yote issues. I would have at least expected a FDL on the canoe rather than the 6 pointed star.
As you mention, the totem of Ona Yote also included the Indian carrying the canoe as you can see on all of their designs.
Of course this could be a precursor to the ‘new’ totem, but I would also have expected the Ko Nosh I Oni Tree of Peace to be displayed.
There are a number of short run J’s from 34 Ona Yote, but I have at least seen those before, even if they were out of my price range.
Many TOR’s have been held in Lodge 34 and the neighboring lodge’s (294 and 219/410) territory that I have attended over the years (dating back to the late 1980’s). I do not recall ever seeing this piece before.
It does not appear in Al Rosenberger’s Guide to NY OA from circa 1981 (who was just down the Thruway apiece) nor in Bob Connor’s pre-Blue Book listings for NY OA issues, nor in the Black and White copies of Don Vanderbilt’s collection that I have. All were major NY Collectors at one time. I have copies of many of Bob’s Blue Book records as well; there is no record of any unconfirmed issues that he was following up.
Of course, none of the above is conclusive one way or the other. I’d like to think it is a new lodge 34 discovery, but absent conclusive proof, I suspect it is just a troop patch and very likely not even from that area.
Hi Bill-
It certainly is an interesting item. While I doubt it belongs to 34 Konoshioni (based upon not having the tree of peace paramount in the design), what is striking are the similarities. Prominent in both are the fire and gray rock elements. While far from shedding any light, it certainly warrants further investigation. I will be attending 34 Gahonga’s Winter Banquet this week. I know a few “old timers” that have been with 500, 34 Gonlix, and 34 Konoshioni from the beginning. I am certain they would be able to ID this item if an actual lodge piece. As for not seeing it in a major NYS collection, summer 2006 saw an update to 34 Konoshioni’s listings with the addition of previously undocumented eX1970-3?
My best to all of you-
From the foothils of the Adirondacks-
-Ray
Ray,
I’d appreciate any information you can track down.
This is one of the main functions I hope the blog can provide.
Answering questions and finding new issues or newly discovered issues including finding ‘proof’ where possible.
Regards,
Bill